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December 28, 2012
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so i tried reading some new comics.... by nebezial so i tried reading some new comics.... by nebezial
i tried reading some of the new dc comics, , cause of the whole reboot, i though, hey, i'll jump in on some of that. i do love the characters in the cartoons...

and..just... damn...

see its a personal nuisance for me. i worked for years on witchblade, working hard to get the whole tna reputation out of the way. ron and i did relatively well with that

we were constantly taking shit from the people who read superhero comics, and got a crapload of condescension


and now... well.. seems like the shoe is on the other foot

because... just ... wow. there are many many amazingly well done comics, just brilliant in both artwork and writing.. but some are just... uncomfortable

i am a great believer that sexuality in comics serves a purpose, and works best when earned through character development.

it is supposed to be subservient to the story, it needs to be given a better purpose than just... hey, look sex!

so far the female characters in dc have been a bit... um...lets just say mishandled.

this is merely one man's opinion. no better nor more important than anyone else's. if you disagree that is your right.

and i hate the damn harley, arkhampromiscuousoversexualizedjailbait design

always have always will. it lacks the tongue in cheek humor, it lacks the likeability, but it replaces it with a lollipop sucking jailbait look....sorry...just..no


and for anyone who thinks themselves clever to go and point out that i'm drawing and writing sunstone, and yet i have a problem with this, i will save you the embarrassment.

sunstone is a comic ABOUT sexuality.
therefore there is sex in it

these are comics about superhero's that are saving the world on a daily basis... that is their premise...see what i'm getting at here?

oh and to explain my problem with catwoman XD

in the comics tshe often fights the same supercriminals as batman...

buut, batman is walking aroung in a boryarmor nowadays... selina... in a latex catsuit

what is the armor rating on your average catsuit?

we will ask killer croc XD




aaand fixed XD, "s"word removed thank you for turning the discussion of poor handling of female characters in comics to a discussion of semantics.. it was... pretty entertaining and in some points enlightening :)

so here is where all the confusion came from

my name is stjepan sejic and i am a croat!

hi stjepan

so , in croatia we have taken cursing and derogatory terms to a level that many would think unimaginable

it is often so crazy that some of the offensive words never quite... graduate

slutty for instance , in my country never really got to the rank where it would be used to define a woman's sexual behavior in a derogatory way.

we have about 60 far worse words for that

here word pretty much is used for a dressing style, that is ..oh lets say less than practical.

,now that you know this, i think the original intention of my message becomes clearer ...tho many never had any problems of guessing it

message was that female characters deserve more dignity in their treatment in comics...to be more than a eyecandy afterthought existing for nothing else than to hump random people without any insight to why.

i'm just saying if we have to know why a guy has a different colored suit, it would be useful to know why a female character is about to have sex with a random guy.

ultimately i found the right words i wanted to use to explain this situation

it is political correctness.

you presumed that every country has it as highly developed as the top few.

unfortunately we do not, that train is coming to my country too, but its slow moving and we put obstructions on the tracks

till then , there will probably be some confusions, so try to realize that maybe the person talking to you is not being judgmental, they just express differently because such is the norm of their country :)
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:iconkate-n-bd:
kate-n-bd Featured By Owner 3 days ago
this is so true, thank you for telling all that!
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:iconjonothesequal:
jonothesequal Featured By Owner Jan 19, 2015
I absolutely love the designs and re-designs you've presented in your art, your work has inspired many design paths I've explored in my own art (and the humorous take on subject matter you have is always appreciated). Always looking forward to your next piece(s). 
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:iconblainedaymon:
BlaineDaymon Featured By Owner Nov 23, 2014
how, never seen you do a rant piece before.

applauds man, applauds
Clap Clap Clap Clap Clap Clap

I am right there with you on the whole issue, it is just tragic.
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:icon14darius:
14Darius Featured By Owner Edited Nov 18, 2014  Hobbyist General Artist
kinda more of a marvel fan than dc. i love dc characters but i like marvel a bit more. favorite hero is spider-man his whole clique may wear skin tight clothing but its still armor, most of the spider-people wear armor and are fairly decent with gadgets. it helps. sure the girls still look sexy but with their heighten awareness and reflexes they don't get hit much. though i wish peter would come through and give jessica some webshooters like she asked awhile back but oh well. the flash is my dc fav. not many people gonna hit him anyway.
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:icontayzejacksonbell:
TayzeJacksonBell Featured By Owner Oct 13, 2014
Like I say, if you're a fan of Starfire from the TV show... don't read the comics... especially not the New 52...
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:icondamushroom:
DaMushroom Featured By Owner Sep 8, 2014  Hobbyist Artist
God feminists' are annoying! I took a course last spring that analyzed old fairytales and different peoples takes on them (there are some really bizzare people that have way too much time on their hands) and the feminists' views only nitpicked on EVERYTHING-this character is nothing but passive-she depends on men too much, everyone wants a blonde, and all this other crap! Freud I can handle, any of his apostles I can take, but the feminists make me all kinds of irritated. That I didn't expect.

It is sad...especially when a girl like myself is shopping and looking for actual comfortable clothes. It gets harder and harder to find clothes that cover what needs to be covered. And I know it's a little ridiculous, but part of me expects comic book artists to be a little more original than that-think functionality instead of eye teasers. I know that they follow what the populace wants to see, but still...*pinches bridge of nose* yeeeesh.
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:iconmk-r:
MK-R Featured By Owner Sep 8, 2014  Hobbyist
I think that's not only DC's goal for every female character.
I think it may be just pop culture in America :/ -headesk-
The string supported outfits which are meant to be "distracting from (name here's) male or female oppnonents" are what is now in and acceptable because of the insane, hormonal feminists who are creating a "War on Women" and pushing for a new acceptance of vulgar and tiny cloth supported clothes and they don't want to hear what they need to be hearing:
SKET (Carribean for whore, I believe so...)
They do that by changing the meaning of the word 'slut', 'whore', 'bitch', brainwashing other feminists into turning that overused and mostly accurate into a socital attribute, when, if people would just
Overall, I agree with what you just pointed out. It's sad how America is turning into becoming with shorter dresses, skirts, and skimpier and shorter and shorter shorts.
I don't know if you're female or not, doesn't matter, anyway, they aren't even selling shorts that at least cover our butt cheeks!!!!
-drinks water, rubs forehead-
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:icondamushroom:
DaMushroom Featured By Owner Sep 7, 2014  Hobbyist Artist
It demoralizes the character; makes them less of a stand up respected and action character and into something that's kind of distracting. If you got a Harley Quinn Action figure from back when all you could see was her face, compared to now-what are you going to see more in that figure? The character, or the outfit?
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:iconmk-r:
MK-R Featured By Owner Sep 6, 2014  Hobbyist
Without the possibility of being injured or --sorry for the bad language- but the liability of being able to be kicked between the legs? Or even just how Sonya Blade dresses?
Or with long skirts like Sailor moon or Ruby Tojo?
Over the knee or literal centimeters above the knee skirts I think are okay, because I don't like men being able to see what needs to be hidden more often.
I am tired of over sexualization with both genders overall.
And I don't get why people are trying to change the way slut is used. 
Stop being sexually disgusting and learn to keep your legs closed!

and that goes for prostitute OCs as well.
it's not fun to be around and should be stopped or changed.
Both men and a good percentage of women don't enjoy the idea.
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:icondamushroom:
DaMushroom Featured By Owner Sep 6, 2014  Hobbyist Artist
Honestly-how are those cloths suited for battle?
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:iconmk-r:
MK-R Featured By Owner Sep 6, 2014  Hobbyist
Exactly.
And don't be surprise if a female doesn't agree with dressing like a sket skeaze bitch for cosplay : P
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:iconshadowsbadgirl:
shadowsbadgirl Featured By Owner Sep 6, 2014
I also don't like how--I'll just say it--how skanky people are wanting Harley Quinn to be in the new Arkham games.
I am a woman and I don't think that mini skirts and underbust corsets are fun to dress up in and hand out candy.
That being said for "sexy" costumes in general.
I also don't understand why sex has to be put in everything we read or watch.
can't we all just be clean and not focus on nasty dirty shows and outfits? :/
it's getting pretty gross.
and yes, I am a virgin and plan on staying that way until I am ready.
I love new and modern costume character designs in games, I just don't understand why they have be so skimpy and being forced to accept or dress that way. :facepalm::no:
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:iconkobaltkween:
kobaltkween Featured By Owner Aug 24, 2014  Professional Digital Artist
The original TV show Harley was a truly great example from a long line of take-offs (especially animated ones) on the persona of a brilliant comedienne: Judy Holliday.  Find a movie of her, and you'll immediately hear the resemblance.  Watch her in something like Born Yesterday, and you'll see that wonderfully playful and ditsy yet fierce persona.  Not only were her works hilarious, but she was brilliant _and_ brave enough to use that same character to stand up to the House Un-American Activities Committee, and turn them all around with her answers.   They hurt her career, but couldn't pin her down well enough to fully blacklist her _or_ get her to name names.

For me, changing Harley into a totally different character, especially a more 2-dimensional one more suited for pornos than anything with a plot, is disrespectful and disappointing.  There's just _so_ much you can do with that archetype.
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:iconteatimefan:
TeaTimeFan Featured By Owner Aug 4, 2014  Hobbyist
Well said! I miss classic Harley so much >:c
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:iconsir-talen:
Sir-Talen Featured By Owner Aug 4, 2014  Hobbyist Writer
Coming in late here, but I probably should point you towards one of my favorite webcomics Terinu It's a full page B&W sci-fi comic, with half the main cast female and all of them dressed decently [1] and with realistic proportions.

[1] Aside from Gwen's "Exotic Dancer Barbie" sequence, but it's treated as disturbing rather than sexy, esp the last panel.
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:icondamushroom:
DaMushroom Featured By Owner Jul 3, 2014  Hobbyist Artist
Ya know, I'm all for  character redesigns, because it can lead to some interesting aspects of said character that might not have been explored, and costume redesigns are great for artistic challenge and how the character functions...DC girls are losing cloths function...and cloths in general. With what Harley wears now and compared to her original-I like the original more because it showed a side of deranged innocence.

And Catwoman and Talia Al Ghul...I don't see how boobies hanging out would help them any, other than slow them down and be insanely uncomfortable.

Comic girls don't need to lose their cloths to be sexy
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:iconjohnnygatthird:
johnnygatthird Featured By Owner Jun 8, 2014  Hobbyist Digital Artist
i like it
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:iconbobsheaux:
Bobsheaux Featured By Owner May 27, 2014
With all the poon that Bruce Wayne gets on a regular basis, Catwoman is always supposed to be The One That Got Away.  The ONLY time I will ever enjoy seeing any kind of implied sex between Batman and Catwoman is in Earth 2, where they're happily married and yet we never actually SEE anything aside from the existence of their daughter, Robin. Batman's still fighting crime, he's successfully pulled Catwoman onto the right side of the law, AND he has the family he deserves.  AWESOME!

Catwoman #1 can go right to hell.
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:iconthesmokingspirits:
TheSmokingSpirits Featured By Owner May 26, 2014  Hobbyist Artist
I agree.

I will not lie, as a man..or rather as myself I am a fan of the female figure not just from the obvious 'likable' parts but also because of a sort of balance. I mean hell, we all probably fell in love with Harley not just because of her figure but of her strangely likeable personality, sure she had her...unusual moments but she was just charming, but the new harley in Arkham..I mean...my god there's 'good' edginess and horribly done edginess.. My god.. I wonder, I just...pray that eventually SOMEONE will finally say "Hmmm this Harley and/or other female characters lack depth and likability and that's been replaced with boobs and or sex appeal, for some reason this don't seem right."
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:iconyellowflowerevy:
yellowflowerevy Featured By Owner May 7, 2014  Student General Artist
THANK YOU!!! I REALLY REALLY HATE IT TOO!!! AND I ACTUALLY WANTED TO TRY TO WORK FOR DC (i mean I am a noob in the comics world too scared to even post my comics yet) BUT ITS FRUSTRATING AS HECK TO SEE THIS CRAP!!! DC WENT FROM DEEP ENDEARING RELATIONSHIPS TO TURNING HARLEY INTO A SLU... sexy SCHOOL GIRL OUTFIT AND ITS HORRIBLE!!! NOW SHES LOST EVEN HER OBSESSION WITH JOKER AND MAKES OUT WITH ANYTHING!!! I JUST ... *sigh* there is so much more to be said but golly its depressing.
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:icondaulidas:
Daulidas Featured By Owner May 5, 2014  Hobbyist General Artist
So true... :\
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:iconminnyange:
minnyange Featured By Owner May 5, 2014
Nod 
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:iconuraeusmax:
uraeusmax Featured By Owner Apr 9, 2014
I feel you man. But dc can't make money with women in parkas. But I agree with you. And these suits are great.
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:iconharlxjoker:
HarlXJoker Featured By Owner Feb 26, 2014
Joker: hehe...uh oh...
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:iconbloodmaker:
bloodmaker Featured By Owner Jan 17, 2014
hah oh yeah, those were especially tight, those must have been a  bit embarrassing. :)
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:iconlalunabluena:
Lalunabluena Featured By Owner Jan 14, 2014  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
I think it's OK to make these characters look sexy in certain ways (other than the kind that serves a purpose, even though that is the best way) but when their personality is butchered or removed just to make it easier for guys to imagine putting their dick into that's when things become very sexist.  And by the way I also think Harley Quinn's Arkham Asylum design was atrocious.     
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:iconm-a-w:
M-A-W Featured By Owner Jan 6, 2014

I knew I recognized your art. I loved witch blade one of my favs, that and wet works.

 

as far as the DC 52 thing, I always feel in the gaps of logic myself. They don't were armor because...they're braver than batman,ect,etc.

If you want obscene logic look up " Kill La Kill" That's what they wear, 52 could be worse or Awsome.

 

Keep up the good work and maybe, one day at a time well change this crazy 52 world.

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:icontoadman005:
Toadman005 Featured By Owner Jan 6, 2014  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
It is really, really annoying. And far worse today than it was when I was growing up. I think Gen 13 in the 90's was the first time I ever really saw it start to turn towards outright exploitation.
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:iconrabbit88:
Rabbit88 Featured By Owner Dec 29, 2013
I was thinking more like Star Trek Next Generation uniforms =)
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:iconthedawrkknight:
TheDawrkKnight Featured By Owner Dec 25, 2013
marketting. its bc sex sells...;cant make money with all covered up powergirl...gotta grab readers attention somehow
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:iconmadman1082:
madman1082 Featured By Owner Dec 23, 2013
cat woman, actually wearing an armored suit instead of the favored gimp outfit =P




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:iconrobiac3:
robiac3 Featured By Owner Dec 22, 2013
I would like to start by saying i agree with everything said, but out of curiosity, would this criticism extend to female characters who for all intent and purposes are written with the M.O. of a femme fatal, who's purpose is to be deliberately oversexualized case in point of Poison Ivy, or is she just an example that proves your point more?
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:iconbluehorse17:
BlueHorse17 Featured By Owner Dec 11, 2013
Love the expressions!
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:iconbloodmaker:
bloodmaker Featured By Owner Dec 10, 2013
eh most clothes are, even now, you don't see the top fashion designers making puffy or loose clothes, everybody feel the niiiice suffocating feeling. lol I don't know that's just the way things are.
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:iconrabbit88:
Rabbit88 Featured By Owner Nov 29, 2013
It didn't really bother me in ME. I just thought, hey, they're in the future, they HAVE TO wear skin tight outfits!
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:iconbloodmaker:
bloodmaker Featured By Owner Nov 23, 2013
lol holy crap how did that happen? Did they give an example of how they didn't realize the difference?
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:iconbloodmaker:
bloodmaker Featured By Owner Nov 23, 2013
idk I think how they did that in mass effect worked out well since it was part of the plot, now god of war? that's completely different and would probably fit better with your argument.
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:iconbloodmaker:
bloodmaker Featured By Owner Nov 23, 2013

huh never heard the term jailbait used that way, unless she's younger than I thought...

but hey it could be worse, I'm surprised they haven't taken advantage of the potential bondage capabilities of spiderman: hands and feet that can stick to anything, combined with the ability to create intricate restricting webbing.

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:iconvlunav:
vLUNAv Featured By Owner Aug 15, 2013
<3
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:iconcodyrush:
codyrush Featured By Owner Jul 24, 2013  Student Filmographer
P.S. I wish your Harley was the official look.
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:iconcodyrush:
codyrush Featured By Owner Jul 24, 2013  Student Filmographer

Conan runs bare chested into battle: the Spartans have even less on than him in the '300' comic. Those barbarian-y characters're supposed to be pulpy and kitschy like that; it's just for fun. It's like any frazetta illustration. Everyone's in on the discrepancy; everyone's in on the joke.

 

 How much are you taking into account the countless numbers of suped up females in comics? Super girl can wear a skirt because she's dipped ass to eyeballs in mithril essentially. Same with Ms. Marvel: she's invincible so she can look as sexy as she pleases. Same with She-Hulk or Red She-Hulk. Kitty Pryde can phase through anything. Rogue can take anyone's abilities and she's already suped up as is. Scarlet Witch can tinker with reality itself.

 Went it comes to T and A, as an aspiring designer I've always tried to either A)make a super powered character that doesn't NEED extraneous gadgets or body armor; B)just ignore the clothing issue like 'Tank Girl'; or c) just make their wear sexy and accenting through line manipulation, patterning the components of a suit to flatter the character.

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:iconcodyrush:
codyrush Featured By Owner Jul 24, 2013  Student Filmographer

 While I agree many comic book artists (Here's lookin' at you, Jim Lee) tend to middle-finger-bang rape the laws of physics and basic anatomy...to some degree...they're just adhering to the comic/cartoon rules of exaggeration. Like Canary for example: her I give a pass because it's just a cool outfit. Would I be amenable to a redress of her aesthetic for a more realistic comic? Yeah. Frankly there are female heroines in desperate need of utility belts. Catwoman, yes. Canary, yes. Wonder woman? Pfft. She doesn't need gadgets any more than Supes or Power girl. Same with Zatana.

 

 I hate the jail bait look in Arkham Asylum: it's just so...trashy. It looks like what Rob Zombie fondles off to. Where's the clown theme, commenting on the innately brutal burlesque of life? Where's the manic pugnacious playfulness of the character? What's the difference between the Arkham look and a goth stripper? It's just such a slapped-on look. It feels like lazy cosplay.

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:iconraunchyponchy06:
RaunchyPonchy06 Featured By Owner Jul 23, 2013
Ignore that last, separate comment - stupid Deviantart won't let me delete anything
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:iconraunchyponchy06:
RaunchyPonchy06 Featured By Owner Jul 23, 2013
Also, I'm pretty sure that someone who actually works in the industry understands just fine what they're talking about.
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:iconraunchyponchy06:
RaunchyPonchy06 Featured By Owner Jul 17, 2013
Ignoring your overly defensive tone, the problem isn't that Starfire's character is being misunderstood.

The PROBLEM is that someone decided to write a character (and characters) like that in the first place, just as an excuse to have one more scantily-clad lady in the DC universe. Hell, supposedly the instructions for her design were actually "Red Sonja in Space" which should tell you everything you need to know about what the end goal was for her appeal.

Whatever her biography says for her powers, history, race's culture, or personality doesn't change that, because much of it was written merely as a justification for her to be eye candy, instead of giving a space character something sensible, like a sweet battlesuit. Basically, they just made up reasons in her origin that would give her permission to be half naked.

While she may be a cool and somewhat popular character, especially in the wake of the Teen Titans cartoon, her design already being the way it was since 1980 does no favors for the respectability of the comics medium. Her New 52 version, which could've been an opportunity to fix something, is ESPECIALLY not helping the issue, which is bad for comics today when the problem is worse than ever, even for pop culture in general.
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:iconraunchyponchy06:
RaunchyPonchy06 Featured By Owner Jul 11, 2013
Agreed, those outfits look awesome and refreshingly non-sexual-fanservice-y; also, movie ready, not unlike what you've displayed here.

Also, what? I have you to thank for the armor improvements done in Witchblade? I must admit I haven't read your profile or anything yet because I favorited you purely based on your art, but if this is really the case...
... well then sir, thank you. Thank you for having the principles to do that in the name of respectability for the medium, and for doing it despite criticism. We need more folks like you and Ron working in the industry
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