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okay so here is a tip

i have seen  in my life many artists who proclaimed they want to develop their skills, and kept bashing on everyone and everything on the way....and for some reason those guys never got anywhere...

here is why..

there is a value to different approaches, different styles. realism, manga , cartooney disney, my little pony, furries....don't waste your time tryint to bash any of the stuff you don't personally like

you are missing out, bigtime!

see there is a reason why that stuff is popular. and by that i mean on the visual side. so instead of flaming , trolling and bashing, try understanding the inner workings of it.

here are some specific examples

realism- it is a wonderfully complex base , reflects one's skill  in capturing reality, but in it there are differences between photo referenced, real life work and no reference. ALL HAVE THEIR VALUE AND IMPORTANCE! from photos you can learn alot,  gain analytic skills, develop an attention to details, so dont bash those who work from photos, ask yourself can you do it as good!

from real life you include the speed aspect to it. nature is fleeting, changing, and you are trying to capture the moment, so when  looking at a piocture you know was drawn from real life,  look at it as such, understand it's challenges

from mind-no reference. learn to recognize the skills behind this approack and be aware the people who are capable of this are actually well versed in both from photo and from real life artwork



manga- a very popular style that is unfairly summarized. there are different approaches. to some manga summarizes gestures and expressions to  facial emoticons but let's take a very popular naruto as an example. artist of it is a master of facial expressions and gesture. same can be said for genshiken. on a different side there are people like ken akamatsu who use a more polished stylized approach and uses facial emoticons to a greater extent.   you can learn from all of these approaches
look for what is useful, not for what you can hate

disney influenced general style is perhaps the best aid to learning gesticulation and facial expressions, as it generally translates well into drawing and makes expressiveness pop by making every motion just a little bit overly done

my little pony... oh yea im goiing there! never saw the series, but i appreciate the expressive nature or what i like to call gesture mapping. it presents creativity on a different level where you are taking and partially anthropomorphizing  horses in this case. the masterfullness there is the disneylike approach to  selling the character's quality through emotiveness  in animation

furries in any shape or form  they also are a creative approach. you will see people mixing different styles and influences , from disney to manga to cinematic to realism. you may dislike the fetishization of the genre. but have no  illusions they are the basis of many of the movie and videogame and comic monsters.


my point here is a simple one. LOOK FOR WHAT IS GOOD, SEARCH FOR USEFUL, DONT WASTE YOUR DAMN TIME ON FLAMING AND HATING IF YOU TAKE YOUR PROGRESS IN ANY WAY SERIOUSLY!
  • Listening to: rhapsody of fire nightwish
  • Reading: scripts by my writer
  • Playing: diablo2
  • Eating: much less
  • Drinking: cofee
Add a Comment:
 
:iconcrypticmachine:
CrypticMachine Featured By Owner Jan 22, 2014  Student General Artist
Yeah I agree I don't think people can really learn anything if they hate on a style they just don't personally like I think it's good to try out different styles and see what works. :)
Reply
:icondnftt2014:
DNFTT2014 Featured By Owner Oct 14, 2013  Hobbyist Artist
Agree,if these useless critic ever stop typing hate & leveling up their talent they would surpass the classic,artistic masters.
Reply
:iconamphibnia:
Amphibnia Featured By Owner Jul 31, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
There is a difference between criticizing a drawing or art style that you don't like, and criticizing someones work in the genre. Both should be done considerately and open-mindedly. I don't like it when people don't try to see the light of a persons work or praise the effort they put into it. If you don't tell them what is good and needs to stay in their art, they will probably feel discouraged. How would that help them? :C
Reply
:iconpassin:
Passin Featured By Owner Jan 23, 2013
Agreed
Reply
:iconknight3000:
Knight3000 Featured By Owner Nov 18, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Good advice.
But with my pieces they hardly get looked at and no one really tells me if its good,it sucks or isterrible. All I get are what i do wrong when I wirte a story with it. "Your spacings bad you have typos it seems rushed".
I try to fix them constantly and not once do I get someone telling me its good and they enjoy it. I always praise everyone elses pieces and writings because they are 100 times better than mine especially if its 3D
Reply
:iconpscientifik:
Pscientifik Featured By Owner Oct 24, 2012  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
fave'n this!
Reply
:iconbracey100:
Bracey100 Featured By Owner Oct 23, 2012  Professional Digital Artist
Well said.
Reply
:icondarthaislin:
DarthAislin Featured By Owner Oct 22, 2012  Professional Digital Artist
Thank you so much for this. I believe if more artists could see the great mentors, muses, and other artists they look up to giving this kind of real life advice, they'd follow it. By posting a journal like this, someone like yourself may have contributed thousands of times more than with just a tutorial on painting in photoshop to helping newer artists grow and learn. :heart:
Reply
:iconesbest:
EsBest Featured By Owner Oct 21, 2012  Professional General Artist
I agree as well. As far as "hater being hater being some form of freedom of speech" as one did say amongst the many comments...I believe there is a distinct difference between just hating and constructive cristism. The later is meant with good intention to help another in a bias way; a way to build and grow in their skill set. When someone just hates, troll and bash, that is NOT one exercising freedom of speech just a freedom to be loud and crude with not real justification and/or benefit to them or the person they are trolling/hating on. It pretty much the same a bully only with the invading a person's actual, live, in-your-face space. I think was nebezial was implying in his message and why his wife thought it was well said. I too think it is well said and should not be mistaken or taken out of content to convey anything outside the point of it not being benefitical to someone who claims they want to get better but will not but looking for bad in other art rather than the good and building from there. I personally applaud him for saying so. It is probably long over due for all the hating (and stealing of his artwork) that he has endure but still willing to share his work and not left Deviant like other artist have and continue to do so as a result of theives, trolls and haters.

Thank you for still sharing, inspiring and your journal entries to both you and your wife, *nebezial. :love: people your yourselves.
Reply
:icontheblackmoon77:
TheBlackMoon77 Featured By Owner Oct 20, 2012  Student Traditional Artist
agreed 100%
Reply
:iconlawbirinth:
Lawbirinth Featured By Owner Oct 20, 2012
You're illuminated! <3
Reply
:iconjmoa:
JMOA Featured By Owner Oct 16, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
:nod: :thumbsup:
Reply
:iconalgelis:
Algelis Featured By Owner Oct 16, 2012  Hobbyist Artist
Its so funny that you say that because for many years i was thinking the same thing, many ppl believe i have the talent to go on proffesional and say that i draw better than the crap thats on tv but i disagree, whats great about art is that if you love it enough you bring with it an essence of yourself no matter what style and when you look at the art it almost comes to life no matter how real or abstract it may be. Maybe i'm ready and maybe not, right now im just trying to find myself in my own personal artwork. :) well said buddy.
Reply
:iconrabidwargamer:
Rabidwargamer Featured By Owner Oct 16, 2012
This is another reason why you're SO much better than that Shiniez guy. Eff that dude.
Reply
:iconplonstudio:
plonstudio Featured By Owner Oct 16, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Thank you very much for this tips :D
Reply
:iconjenbroomall:
JenBroomall Featured By Owner Oct 12, 2012
I don't get the hatorade. It doesn't make sense. I WILL say, I'm not into that but hey that's just me and leave it at that and RESPECT those who DO like something I do not.
I wish more folks would just stop and think before speaking.

Oh well. Love your work, hope to meet you at a con some time!
Reply
:icontheetownhero:
TheEtownHero Featured By Owner Oct 12, 2012  Student Digital Artist
Wisdom.
Reply
:iconreddera:
ReddEra Featured By Owner Oct 8, 2012  Professional Digital Artist
Thank you for saying this. I think a lot of artists appreciate this, I know I do. I have been looked down on for looking at references and for the life of me cannot understand why. Those attitudes just don't make sense to me. I hope people who are hatters change their minds eventually :) Cause all that low energy just mucks everything up
Reply
:iconaemiliuslives:
aemiliuslives Featured By Owner Oct 7, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
Haters gonna hate... and little else. They should all be destroyed! :furious: I hate them...! No... wait...
Reply
:iconwickedprince:
WickedPrince Featured By Owner Oct 7, 2012
I learned very quickly when I joined DA, that if I wanted to be liked and gain any respect as an "artist" I'd go further by finding other artists I liked and providing positive comments about what I liked about their work, with the occasional comment about what seemed off to me (providing a little negative and positive feedback shows you are taking the whole thing seriously rather than simply bashing to bash), rather than going bashing on every artist that was more popular than I felt I deserved to be. I had several friends who took that latter approach, and they never got anywhere. I can't count the times I heard "My art is way better than so-and-so, but he's got 1000 times more watchers, how unfair!" If you check most of the artists who have lots of fans, first go look at who they have faved, and you'll find the base for the majority of their fans.

I've enjoyed/faved a wide variety of strange things simply because I really loved the linework, or the flow of colors, even when the focus of the art wasn't something I got.

You build nothing by tearing down, only by building.
Reply
:iconvloki:
Vloki Featured By Owner Oct 6, 2012
You, my good sir, know what you're talking about. :clap:
Reply
:iconbellatorlupus:
BellatorLupus Featured By Owner Oct 6, 2012  Student Digital Artist
:iconclapplz::iconclapplz::iconclapplz::iconclapplz:
Reply
:iconita-chan01:
ita-chan01 Featured By Owner Oct 5, 2012
I wish there was a like button for this! :D
Reply
:iconcabroon:
cabroon Featured By Owner Oct 4, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Your responses are always sincere and polite. You reach a lot of people through your journal and your art in more ways than you think.
You Sir are a role model for many of us aspiring artists.

I just want to applaud your use of this journal to share some thoughts that we could all benefit from.

...aaand still waiting for more of your tutorials... XD
Reply
:iconnebezial:
nebezial Featured By Owner Oct 5, 2012
do not be fooled , i am an uter bastard, and .. um evil ... erm... muahahahahahahahha.. so yeah !
Reply
:iconmatt-henegar:
Matt-Henegar Featured By Owner Oct 4, 2012  Professional Artist
nail on head sir, nail on the head.
Reply
:iconrita-ria:
Rita-Ria Featured By Owner Oct 2, 2012  Professional Traditional Artist
Thank you for your thoughts!
Just couldn't agree more.
Reply
:iconjabberwockyproject:
JabberwockyProject Featured By Owner Oct 1, 2012
Style is style-some people dislike the style. that doesn't mean they can't try to personalize the style to make it their own, that they like. Very good journal.
Reply
:iconsors-the-luck-bot:
Sors-the-luck-bot Featured By Owner Oct 1, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Sounds legit.
Reply
:iconsangoku1:
sangoku1 Featured By Owner Oct 1, 2012  Hobbyist Interface Designer
But me like trolling... in areasonable maner
Reply
:iconsoriyns-knight:
Soriyns-Knight Featured By Owner Oct 1, 2012  Student General Artist
I can't agree more. It's almost a constant that I see people ripping on other artist for really no good reason, and it makes me sad to know that by doing this many of them actually think they're helping or doing some good.

This hate that they feel towards various artforms are usually derived from the fear that these people feel towards it, that being their fear to accept or even learn from it, but in the end this can will on cause harm. I think Yoda put it best when he said, "Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering."
Reply
:iconhurricaneleslie1:
HurricaneLeslie1 Featured By Owner Sep 30, 2012
Good post, bro.
Reply
:iconanimist:
Animist Featured By Owner Sep 30, 2012
good message
Reply
:icontd-vice:
TD-Vice Featured By Owner Sep 30, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
I disagree.
"Don't hate" is the most passive, unproductive approach to life. You barr yourself from real emotions, from having an opinion and standing by, from forming an argument and understanding your own thought process better.

It closes you off from finding out your work ethic, basic principles and forming directives for work.

It'd the blandest shit, accepting everything. There's no passion behind it.

I hate a lot of shit, and if anything, it's what makes ME progress. I keeps me from making mistakes and allowing me to learn from other people's mistakes. It keeps me fueled to succeed and overcome, and be better.

So the fuck with the pussy attitude? Hate away people, be real.
Reply
:iconnebezial:
nebezial Featured By Owner Sep 30, 2012
and im sure thats working great for ya :)
Reply
:icontd-vice:
TD-Vice Featured By Owner Sep 30, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Sure does.

Point is, you're wrong in thinking that bashing and hating is "unprofessional". History shows that it's completely opposite. Most world-reknown painters - you know, fine art painters, not concept-design and comic-book doodlers - were haters and bashed each other to hell. For example - Salvador DalÝ on Piet Mondrian:
“Completely idiotic critics have for several years used the name of Piet Mondrian as though he represented the sum mum of all spiritual activity. They quote him in every connection. Piet for architecture, Piet for poetry, Piet for mysticism, Piet for philosophy, Piet’s whites, Piet’s yellows, Piet, Piet, Piet… Well, I Salvador, will tell you this, that Piet with one ‘i’ less would have been nothing but pet, which is the French word for fart.”

So no. Insulting, trolling and critisizing is quite fucking professional. Trodding around people's precious feelings in fear that they, omg, might become hurt - that's kindergarten or christian sunday school, I dunno. Not artistic. Shouldn't artists explore all sides of life and emotion, should they not experience rage and disgust, as well as contemplating butterflies and smelling flowers and smoking pot?

Then people ask why modern art is shit, that it's all plastic, soulless gimmickry. Because of your blissful attitude, actually. When real emotion and opinion get toned down to appeal to fragile little snowflakes, art gets castrated. And no one, NOONE improves. Improvement requires a forceful change of habit and outlook, and how would that happen if everyone just licks each others buttholes?

I don't see how.
Reply
:iconlibertymad:
LibertyMad Featured By Owner Sep 30, 2012
You cant afford to criticise something you are not proficient at,
cose you dont understand it, yes you can form an opinion, but not an argument.
Let modern artist be modern artists,
Also,you cant possibly think somebody random could make an impact
on any artist by his words?
so bashing, insulting and trolling is complete waste of time,
it doesnt improve artists who go around insulting nor those who
are being insulted.

quote "Insulting, trolling and critisizing is quite fucking professional"
yeah? how much does it pay?

Forceful change of habit comes from problems much bigger than
opinion of any single person.

Basically you think somebody is doing shit job at his craft?
Why dont you do it better then to make an example.

Im guessing thats what nebezial wanted to point out,
there are those who do the work, and there are well haters
for whom nobody cares about.
Reply
:icontd-vice:
TD-Vice Featured By Owner Sep 30, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
"Basically you think somebody is doing shit job at his craft?
Why dont you do it better then to make an example."

That's bullshit logic, noone is a master of all trades. By your bullshit logic, if say, a surgeon screws up his patients operation - my operation - instead of him getting critisized and paying for his shit job, I should take up the scalpel and needle and make a better job of my ruptured spleen? Yeah? That's how adult world works?

That fucking sums it up.
Reply
:iconlibertymad:
LibertyMad Featured By Owner Sep 30, 2012
We are speaking of artist in learning having their minds occupied with flaws from other forms of arts, or other artists work instead of their own because they didnt made
professional yet which is important if you like to eat.

Dont generalise, because it does not relate, you compared artist with surgeon... thats all logic I need to hear
from you.
Reply
:iconlibertymad:
LibertyMad Featured By Owner Sep 30, 2012
oh,are you talking from not conforming to the social norms position? is that whats this is about?
Reply
:iconnebezial:
nebezial Featured By Owner Sep 30, 2012
maybe people just liked how piet sounds?..piet...pieeeeet...just rolls of your tongue XD

just.. um... one question, where in my post did you find "unprofessional"?

and true, most of them were utter dicks XD... but , here is the smaaall subtle difference...im not saying be sunshine and flowers, im saying look for good , realize wha it is good , see if you can use some of that good...

TO IMPROVE YOUR DAMN SKILLZ!!!!!

see...insteasd of wasting time on retrolling on replies of like 20 sifferent people (and no i dont mean this here, this is a nice discussion in my mind) you can sit down and draw some stuff

us concept designers and comic book doodlers are a new breed, we use a different approach, we brainstorm instead of figuratively bashing each others brains.

point is , if it works for you it works

my approach has been producing results for me, so to each his own :)
Reply
:icontd-vice:
TD-Vice Featured By Owner Sep 30, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
"i have seen in my life many artists who proclaimed they want to develop their skills, and kept bashing on everyone and everything on the way....and for some reason those guys never got anywhere..." - that is implying that they were unprofessional, since they got nowhere.

Well if you know that your approach is producing results for YOU, then CHILL and don't PREACH, like you do here). Instead of preaching some bland wisdom, you could draw and improve, no?

History knows that good feelings produce less good and memorable art then bad feelings. When a person is positive, he's less creative, because he's focused on the positivity anyway. Psychology is fucking weird.
Reply
:iconnebezial:
nebezial Featured By Owner Sep 30, 2012
it is producing results for me,and i will preach my bland wisdom too, its funny how you can actually do both...

still, let me point this out.

my approach here says look at stuff, see what is good in it... for instance, many look at h.r. giger's art, and find the sexuality obscene, and go ew, no thanx, while others wee the brilliance and adopt some of his approach.

some look at warhammer artwork and just write it off as testosterone overloaded geekfantasy....while others see its potentials in designwork and mood

i have all that stuff in my professional resume, i was open to different approaches and ideas and it got me anywhere i wanted.

i am positive, would you say im uncreative?

i paint on average 45 pages of comics a month at least, do about 10 covers, design and model on several videogames, and when i feel like it i take on much more work, besides stuff i draw for fun

see this is something we wont agree on, but that's alright, i dont agree with many things, you do your thing and imma do mine :)

simple as that
Reply
:iconpalibyte:
Palibyte Featured By Owner Oct 11, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Don't let his attitude drag you down man, he obviously hasn't realized that there are more approaches and aspects to discover through different viewpoints and emotions. I think he doesn't realize that looking for the good in something and extracting what makes that good will gain more progress than point out all the negatives. Because if you extract all that is good, all you'll get is good, but if you just point out all the bad, you'll just not have bad, but no good either. At least, that was my interpretation. Anyways, good job at keeping your cool, its very inspiring as I had trouble just reading his comment :D
Reply
:iconnebezial:
nebezial Featured By Owner Oct 11, 2012
drag me down? lol people have been trying that my whole life, and failed repeatedly. guy has his opinion i have mine, simple as that. from there on well either agree or more often, disagree, cause on internet you will rarely truly change anyones opinion. :)
Reply
(1 Reply)
:iconkadomaru:
kadomaru Featured By Owner Sep 29, 2012  Student Artist
I agree
Reply
:iconskoveng77:
Skoveng77 Featured By Owner Sep 29, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
I've encountered a similar problem as of late since I decided to doodle up some new material of my old comics from school. A "friend" of mine meant I was CHEATING! Here is the conversation we had (almost by quote):

Friend: I've exposed you! You're cheating! Your art style is that of Family Guy!

Me: What?? Cheating?? I've drawn like this since 10 years before Family Guy even exsisted!

F: Liar! Your styles are exactly the same!

M: They're not! Family Guy is a refined, animated TV-series while I've never made anything beyond the level of scetching! Family Guy is true quality work!

F: You can't tell me you made up this style yourself!

M: Of course not. I draw typical cartoon sty°e. I'm sure there's over a million other here in Norway alone who draw like that.

F: Look! Look here! (shows me a drawing of one of my characters and a print of Brian Griffin) They're nearly identical!

M: So what? It hasn't occured to you that me and Seth McFarlane has had the same sources of inspiration?

F: What do you mean?

M: I've been inspired by at least 10 different media that's older than Family Guy. Most likely, Seth might have taken inspiration from these too.

F: Name them!

M: Walt Disney, Looney Tunes, Ghost In The Shell, Beetle Bailey, Elf Quest, Spirou, Asterix, The Simpsons, The Pink Panther, Dragonball.

F: ...Name 5 more!!

M: The Smurfs, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, ThunderCats, Masters of the Universe, Tom & Jerry.

F: (long pause) ...Eh, oh yeah!? Well, **** you then!!

He might've had the last word, but he didn't win that argument. ;) So, if someone starts to flame you for your art, at least you'll find out who your real friends are.

PS! I'm not sure if Seth McFarlane is particularly involved in the animation process of FG anymore, but he is the creator, so it was easier to refer to him.
Reply
:iconblackismycolor:
Blackismycolor Featured By Owner Sep 28, 2012
Hell yes! I agree with you. I can't see why people hate what people draw. No matter how hard they work at it, and people are at different levels of skill/style.
Reply
:iconysidro:
Ysidro Featured By Owner Sep 28, 2012  Student General Artist
damn right !!! so many haters everywhere.
Reply
:iconrobtorres:
RobTorres Featured By Owner Sep 28, 2012  Professional Digital Artist
exceptionally well said. My approach is to only bash my own stuff. But I think that's an every artist trait. Or maybe not and I'm the only one. :sniff:
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